Comments
Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:12 AM
Was X-Men Destiny good enough for me to try to get a copy before they become scarce as a result of this ruling?Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:12 AM
Keep Calm and Nuff Said.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:12 AM
Ouch..Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:13 AM
I enjoyed Destiny, may have to track down a copy before its too lateFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:14 AM
Darn i loved Too Human so this means that the company is dead then?Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
#1 trending topic worldwide on Twitter - Silicon Knights Regardless of the unpopularity, this is a blow to the video games industry.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
Xmen destiny was alright as a cheap, play it once kind of game. Didn't so the characters justice but it was average!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:21 AM
Seriously..........we're supposed to give back our copies of the games? Both Destiny and Too Human weren't that bad, and certainly had easy enough achievements at least.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:25 AM
No, you're not expected to send them your game! This is for every copy that is sitting in storage or on store shelves, unsold and unwanted. Get 'em while you can!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:29 AM
There will be another appeal and ultimately, they'll still be able to sell their games, under certain conditions. It's just a shame that it turned out this way. Just goes to show that he who has the most lawyers can get away with pretty much anything.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:34 AM
Epic are assholes. While Silicon Knights were not the most popular they really had potential. Too Human was a great game and a sequel would have been welcomed. I really hope Silicon Knights survive this.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:38 AM
Sounds like the only company out their to have trouble working with UE3. Tards.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:39 AM
I've got to say that this is a blow below the belt by Epic and they should be ashamed of there self for such a shameful act considering how they are handling Gears Of War!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:40 AM
Seems a tad bit of overkill.....I tried the demo for TH and didn't like it personally, but destiny was decent.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:40 AM
@13 #Gears Of War 3Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:43 AM
@1 yup. I enjoyed Xmen destiny.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:46 AM
Everyone keep your copies. One day they'll be worth something.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:52 AM
If anyone wants to get Teamwork Takedown on Too Human, message me. Like, now, before online co-op becomes impossible.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:57 AM
They can take my copy of Too Human, so long as I get to watch them destroy it.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:58 AM
Alright! Some more games that are going to get high price tags on the secondary market......wait they actually have to be good and wanted for that to happen.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:58 AM
@12 The only tard here is you for not knowing what you're talking about -_- They were guaranteed a fully functional version of Unreal Engine 3 by March 2006. In May 2006, they still didn't have it, and had to instead create, edit, and improve the engine themselves. The first game to actually use the Unreal Engine 3 was Gears of War, a November 2006 launch. Therefore, NO ONE had released a game for the engine at the time they were still fighting with an incomplete engine. There's a difference between them "not being able to use the engine" as you claim, and the fact that they received a sub-par version of it from Epic. After 2 months past the deadline, they said fuck it and basically created their own engine. Maybe do some research before you bash a decent developer just because you've got a hard on for the Unreal Engine and Epic, eh? I know I know, using google is hard work and you'd rather just look like a complete jackass by uttering some bullshit you made up in your head to try to build up your e-peen a bit.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:02 AM
@14 TH is a game that grows on you. Pretty tough to get the 1k in though and requires hours of grinding/collecting (unless you have a good friend who will dupe their gear with you which will reduce it considerably). Xmen destiny on the other hand was quite shit, but easy 1kFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:13 AM
@20 That's not necessarily true. Look at some of the rarest/most expensive NES games. They definitely aren't good, but being so rare demands a high price. Given, I can't believe there are many copies of Too Human floating around to be destroyed, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the game raise in price now. Happens to nearly all games that are rare, both good and bad. A lot of people didn't like the .hack series on PS2, and therefore the final game in the first series is extremely rare. It's still the most expensive ps2 game today, sitting at around $80. Personally, I loved it, so I still have mine :) And I'll keep my copy of Too Human as well. The game had a lot of problems, but it was still fun and the I loved the take on Norse Mythology. Hell, even Culdcept Saga on 360 is still sitting at $25 despite being a mediocre game from 2008, simply because its semi-rare.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:18 AM
I didn't even know they were still around! But unlike most me and my friends like Too Human a lot, if only for a cool co op experience. Definitly was better than some other coop games out there (Army of 2 sequel, couhgh). I'll hold on to the game and maybe my grandkids can get $30K for it in some 200 years like that other game that just sold LOLFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:40 AM
Seriously? As fellow game developers, they should be looking out for each other as the industry is doing so well. I have no love for Epic after GOW3 but wow fuck them completely now.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:47 AM
Still have a sealed copy of Destiny with the juggernaut code, probably won't be opening it nowFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:58 AM
I would have ignored these, but the story got me to order a copy of each. Nothing makes you want something like being told you can't have it.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:59 AM
@21 Technically your wrong, Roboblitz for Xbox Live Arcade which released November 6th 2006 was the first game to be released that utilized Unreal Engine 3. It was only a few days before Gears was released but it just makes me giggle when people say that someone else should do their research. What actually makes me piss myself laughing however is the assertion that Silicon Knights are somehow a decent developer when compared to Epic. Most of SK's games are mediocre at best and Too Human was a pile of diseased excrement with almost no redeeming qualities. I personally have no problem with Epic, they make solid games that I've had a lot of fun with whereas Silicon Knights made a really, really bad game then tried to blame someone else for it. Then made another really, really bad game and had no-one to blame but themselves. My feelings on the subject are that SK had no leg to stand on which is why they lost. Fair play if you wanna support the little guy but when the little guy is entirely undeserving of your support you look a bit fake!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:59 AM
this is well and truly retarded I personally loved both games and will be getting both while I canFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 11:20 AM
Silicon Knights developed the first Legacy of Kain game. Even though they didn't make it, if not for them Soul Reaver never would have happened. For that they will always have my appreciation and it sucks to see how they've fallen.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 11:35 AM
I don't get why people are dissing Epic! They were getting unjustly sued, so they counter-sued. What did they expect? It wasn't like they were going to gently into the good-night! In my opinion, they had it coming!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 11:44 AM
Too human was a great game. Even after I 1000/1000 it I still play it. I'm definitely thinking about buying Xmen Destiny now that we won't see as much of them. I wanted to buy it anyways, but was going to wait for a massive price drop first.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 11:52 AM
"Reportedly only five remain," of what? X-Men? Because at my local GameStop they have 6 new copies, not sure whyFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:01 PM
@33 five of Silicon Knights employees. I literally received today my copy of X-Men: Destiny from Zavvi. Good timing, I guess.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:12 PM
Instead of Destroying the games they should give them away for free to gamers that want them. I want Two Human again. That game wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be. X-men Destiny on the other hand....Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:19 PM
lol @dyackFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:25 PM
Shame this has happened to Silicon Knights. I was always longing for a Too Human sequel. Took me a year to 1000g TH due to the massive grind it required for some of them achievements. But I enjoyed it, even though it was a really short game. Never played X Men Destiny though.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:27 PM
@34 oh haha I guess I thought the second part of that sentence read that he owns one of the games. I agree with #35 I've been wanting to try XMen but I've never wanted to purchase it and keep that on my bank statementFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:27 PM
Gutted I traded my Too Human not that long ago. :/Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:29 PM
NOOOOO! YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, EPIC! I love my copy of Too Human! I'm keepin this bitch. I wanna know how and why they'd even turn this around and go on the offensive.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:32 PM
Silicon Knights were the lot who did Eternal Darkness as well on the gamecube....so this is a bit of a loss really, but at the same time they shouldn't have been so stupid as to sue EpicFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:39 PM
Man, I hope they go out more peacefully than Midway.... :/Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 12:59 PM
X-Men Destiny was ok, with a pretty nice setting for Marvel fans. Also an easy 1000G. Currently sitting at $14 used on Gamefly. Too Human, however, was garbage water.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:09 PM
Both games on this generation consoles got their own ways of fun but gameplay and story is not good. I hope this developers need time and think careful to release good or great games like they did with 2 GameCube games back in days it's MGS Twin Snakes and Eternal Darkness. :) I want to see better game from this developers. I love them when they released 2 GC games back in days. I want they bring better game. Hopeful next generation consoles will see better games from them since GameCube days. :)Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:09 PM
First off, if you own Xmen Destiny and/or Too Human, stop being stupid assuming a man in black is going to show up at your door for it. This is the same as Atari buying back their unsold inventory of ET on the Atari 2600 and burying it in the desert. In fact, it could be a good investment opportunity since the game will become "L@@K R4R3!!!" and you can gouge people on Ebay for two shitty games Lamestop can't even sell new for less than $20. Secondly, I can't believe anyone would come to the defense of Silicon Knights over this! Especially when it comes to their legal fight with Epic games. All of you dummy fanboys picking their side and sayin "man, FUCK Epic games! How dare they?" didn't read Silicon Knight's insane rediculous legal claims against Epic. These are guys who tried to legally force Epic Games to give up every penny they made on Gears of War because "woah woah woah! Look at how awesome Gears looks and look at how shitty Too Human looks. We both used the same engine! Obviously Epic fucked us and EVERYONE ELSE using UE3 by handing out shitty incomplete code" and the argument is bunk because stuff like Rainbow Six used UE3 at the same time and looked and played way better than Too Human. Their legal case has always looked like sour grapes. This BS lawsuit wouldn't have happened to begin with if they didn't enter into a legal contract limiting them to only using Unreal Engine 3 for their current gen games. Yes. They actually did this. I have no idea if their claim about their broken version they got is true, but the fact of the matter is they wanted to use some other physics engine but couldn't due to a legally binding contract. Ergo why they took the code they got and modified (hacked) it into their own. Apparently the court ruled this modified UE3 was a breach of contract leading to this ruling. It looks like I'm right too since Too Human has been delisted from wikipedia's "list of UE3 games" so they fucked themselves over. Third, if you like X-Men Destiny or Too Human, that's great. Everyone has guilty pleasures- games they know stink but they enjoy them none the less. I love Deadly Premonition and that game is pure kusoge. But praising SK's 2 current gen games? Calling them "good"??!!? TOO HUMAN GOOD?!? What the fuck is wrong with you!!! D: For the drama queens, this isn't a 'blow against the games industry'. Silicon Knights has always sucked. Dennis Dyack having a meltdown and getting banned from NeoGAF was the best Silicon Knights production since Eternal Darkness. A game they can't make a sequel to because (suprise surprise) of legal conflicts with Nintendo. Geez, I wonder if they're interested in buying this ugly old bridge nobody wants in New York City.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:28 PM
geez, if I could i'd post a link to an article about Silicon Knights claims against Epic but you can't find it thanks to the flood of links to articles on today's ruling. The only thing I can find is Wikipedia's brief summary on the original lawsuit. Wikipedia: " Silicon Knights' suit alleged that Epic was "sabotaging" Unreal Engine 3 licensees, withholding an improved version of that game engine while also using licensing fees to fund development of Gears of War, not to improve the Unreal Engine." the sad thing is they don't mention Silicon Knight's demand that Epic give up all the money they made with Gears of War. The list of claims and demands were so absurd, the time frame of the lawsuit even (shortly after Too Human's release and low sales), everything about it made it really hard to feel any sort of sympathy for 'em. This ruling today is the result of Epic Games counter suit against Silicon Knights if that tells you anything.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:28 PM
Fried Cola is my main drink :cool:Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:38 PM
Lawsuits be lawsuits. SK's damages claims were ludicrous (all profits from GoW), but Epic's countersuit (which they won) was ridiculous as well. The case was basically decided because the judge didn't allow other developers to testify in SK's favor. Publishers/devs like Ubisoft also complained and had trouble with the engine in the early days (R6 Vegas was the 1st or 2nd shipped title using UE3). From all the public info available, I do think SK were wronged by Epic. Not "give us all GOW money" wronged, but they were definitely not provided with the engine and support that Epic promised. Shame about all this. Actually love Too Human, it's unfortunate we'll never see TH2.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:45 PM
Not sure why so many people want to blame Epic. Remember, SK sued Epic, not the other way around. What did you expect Epic to do, just lie down and take SK's bullshit? Maybe SK should have had two things before going to court: one, a legitimate complaint, and two, a reasonable compensation demand. "We illegally modified your engine because we didn't like your support so give us all your Gears of War money" is stupidity reaching far beyond the levels of even YouTube comments.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 01:55 PM
Question: If Silicon Knights got screwed over by Epic way back in 2006, why the hell would they continue to use the Unreal Engine all the way up to 2011? Seems kind of stupid to me, sympathy is therefor limited!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:00 PM
@49 Silicon Knights don't have a legitimate complaint? So Silicon Knights pay Epic to obtain a fully functional and working engine with the payment meant to help fund the engines development. Epic give Silicon Knights a partially completed engine and offer no support nor the complete engine and to top it off may have used the money for the development of the engine to develop GOW and you say they don't have a legitimate complaint? Are you perhaps an Epic fanboy? Sure Silicon Knights demand of all profits was wrong but they did deserve compensation and the complete engine.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:02 PM
Sorry, just read Fried Cola's post...so they had to continue using Unreal, but for the same reason, they're clearly pretty stupid!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:10 PM
Sorry for posting again so soon, but why do all the people defending Silicon Knights seem to think that Epic gave them an incomplete engine when none of the other companies using it at that time ever complained about it? I seem to remember Rainbow Six: Vegas being rather good using the same engine at the same time, or did big bad Epic, who everybody hates now because (how dare they) they've had the gall to release four Gears games in 7 years (WTF!), just pick on Silicon Knights and no-one else!? Or it could be that Denis Dyack should join up with Stuart Black and that Yerli guy from Crytek as mouthy twats that we could all do without?Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:11 PM
Too Human was... alright for a bit but was insanely repetitive. The deal states "unsold" copies. Meaning new and never seen the hands of a consumer. Used copies will continue to circulate. It's also well-documented that SK's CEO is a megalomaniac dictator idiot disconnected from reality. SK's troubles stem from terrible top-down leadership. Or more accurately, lack thereof. http://kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-wrong-with-silicon-knights-x+men-destiny Sadly for the staff who work(ed) under him this means a mundane and frustrating job. Many people have simply left to go to better developers. I know a guy who used to work there that got out and went to Ubisoft Toronto instead before the shit really hit the fan. Wise move.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:23 PM
@#48 a...are you Dennis Dyack? @#50 they signed a legally binding contract with Epic Gmaes to produce games for the current generation using Unreal Engine 3 only. So yeah, any bleeding heart argument anyone would make in favor of Silicon Knights getting 'screwed over' by Epic, the fault lies with Silicon Knights for foolishly signing a contract for an unsatisfactory product in the first place. A product that other game companies not Epic Games were able to use with some success. Hell, SK even bragged about thier Unreal Engine 3 agreement to drum up interest for Too Human after Microsoft bought them. Seriously, pick sides if you want, but Silicon Knights did this to themselves.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:36 PM
I haven't seen my copy of Too Human in years. No great loss, I just wonder where it go to.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:46 PM
The chances of Eternal Darkness 2 get lower and lower...:(Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 02:52 PM
Depending on the speed of your local game store, all copies of Destiny and Too Human might already be gone. It's a shame, they were one of the few developers based here in Ontario that actually went somewhere and made a product for current-gen systems.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 03:12 PM
i have xmen destiny, never got around to playing it thoughFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 03:22 PM
@57 not really, since Nintendo owns Eternal Darkness. Hopefully the remaining 5 Silicon Knights employees will just be absorbed into Nintendo with a new studio to finally make Eternal Darkness 2 ( Wii U has so much potential for new ways to mess with our heads ) I loved Too Human, and really wanted to see how the whole planned trilogy played out. Guess that's another cliffhanger we'll never see get resolved ( joining Heroes, Dark Angel and 9 Lives of Chloe King... for me at least )...never really enjoyed X-Men Destiny. Beat it with the Japanese girl ( can't remember her name ) on easy and just could not get into it enough to bother trying for the other achievementsFriday, November 09, 2012 @ 03:37 PM
@51 That's what SK claimed, doesn't mean that actually happened. The courts ruled in Epics favor because SK stole Epics code and created 2 games using it. That's illegal and why things have turned out the way they did for SK. For those of you saying Epic sucks or is greedy you should know Epic declinded over $1,800,000 in award damages.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 05:02 PM
@27 How true. OT: Epic are complete and utter dicks. Hey, let's take a developer that is really struggling and just crush them into oblivion. They will NEVER get my money. Sure they make good games (Bulletstorm, Gears Of War etc), but I will always buy them second hand so they don't get one red cent of my money. DICKS!Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 05:06 PM
@61 Ok, I'm confused. So Epic declined 1.8 million in damages, but they'll accept the 4.45 million.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 05:14 PM
So if the company tries to destroy all the copies it can get there hands on. While some consumers still own a sealed copy of: Too Human, The Box/Ritualyst, The Sandman, X-Men: Destiny and/or Siren in the Maelstrom. Does that mean they'll be worth something in the future?Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 05:21 PM
@62 @63 Epic are the dicks? Let's say you create an game engine, license that engine to a developer, the developer then steals the engine code, tries to cover it up and makes 2 games with that engine. Then the people who stole your engine sue you for untrue claims? That's what Silicon Knights did to Epic, yet Epic are dicks? Ok. The way it's been explained to me is Epic declined $1.8 million of the $4.45 million award stating they only sought Silicon Knights ill-gotten profits.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 06:20 PM
Now that's what I call public service.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 06:21 PM
@64 depends but to be safe, buy a copy new and keep it sealed. Might take many years before you start to see any kind of demand for it. I'm strongly contemplating it myself.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 06:50 PM
As I was writing the above comments I decided to go ahead and order a few sealed copies for my sale. Interestingly the price was jacked up tonight for Too Human. I think I saw it at 14 bucks new this morning. Logged in tonight and the cheapest copy was 24 not including shipping. Will be really interesting to see how this plays out.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 08:30 PM
Silicon Knights was already dead in the water after X-Men: Destiny. If you read up what happened behind the scenes with that, it seemed unlikely that any publisher would ever deal with them again since Dyack thinks he can push publishers around.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 08:48 PM
@69 that's already been dismissed as a lie. Many of the older rare NSES games carry a high price tag because people are willing to pay for rarity, not quality.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:17 PM
Ok, I read up on this more today, so here's a brief recap of the events between Silicon Knights and Epic Games if anyone cares anymore. Sorry for the TL;DR. May 15 2005 was the date Silicon Knights sealed its doom signing an agreement to develop exclusively using Epic's Unreal Engine 3 for all next (current) gen projects. SK's suit vs Epic was over breach of contract claiming SK wasn't supplied the appropriate UE3 code & Epic didn't offer any product support. SK failed to prove this, stop making excuses for them fanboys. Epic's counter suit vs SK was: breach of contract, copyright infringement, and trade secret misappropriation. Epic proved all three of these counts. This recent ruling was the result of SK's move to stay enforcement of the judgement forcing a review of the court's findings & attempt to minimize $ damages making arguments against certain rulings. This totally backfired for SK reaffirming their guilt at the claims leveled at them. Reading the court document on the ruling, there was little argument over breach of contract, but Epic nailed SK hard over copyrights and misappropriation of trade secrets. My memory might be real bad about this, I didn't keep a link, but I seem to remember reading a candid interview with Denis Dyack (pres of SK) giving a post mortem on Too Human and he openly admitted in order to get UE3 to do what they wanted, SK altered its coding. Dyack believed that this satisfied the terms of his agreement with Epic. TECHNICALLY SK's games were running on UE3 even if the engine was altered and renamed Silicon Knights Engine. This is what got SK into trouble: Dyack assumed Epic would be ok with this. According to the court document, SK tried to hide the fact they scrubbed UE3 code. Then tried hiding the fact they were hiding it. They admitted under cross examination. Epic produced evidence that SK's engine contained 1442 instances of copied and cleaned code to disguise Epic's coding as theirs by removing things like copyright notices and Epic's name. Busted. Someone mentioned Epic turned down the $1.8 mil award trying to spin it off as 'generosity' or something, that was what they were awarded over copyright/trade secret infringements. I think they turned it down because they weren't seeking damages. The $2.65 million was over breach of contract for X-Men Destiny tho. That was the $ the X-men game made (WTF! That much?) and, in a nutshell, all profit was deemed forfeit and given to Epic since their intellectual property (UE3) was used without consent. The other interesting thing is every game SK had in production (excepting Too Human) had licensing issues with Epic as well. Interesting is the ruling's treatment of SK's assets is what is done to bootleg/fraudulent merchandise. Hopefully I didn't screw up the details that badly. You can easily find the court documents on this ruling. Not giving out a link because I know how zealous fanboys behave. Silicon Knights' case against Epic Games was a walking cluster fuck of fail. They were their own worst enemy through this whole thing. Dyack has gotta be the biggest boob in the entire game industry.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:29 PM
@72 thanks for the summary guy. I'm taking copyright law right now and it seems Epic's case was a slam dunk from the start. Basically admitting that you're copying something is just really stupid. Doesn't matter the justification. It's pretty obvious SK just modified the shit out of the code and it is a lie that they built it from scratch. I think SK deserves to perish.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:36 PM
Going to grab cheap copies of both before they both end up in the desert like ET 2600Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 09:40 PM
I don't think Silicon Knights deserves to perish. Everything wrong with that company points to one guy whose Emperor Has No Clothes moment was when he couldn't swallow his pride and simply state Too Human sucked we can do better and opted to blame everyone else instead. The NeoGAF incident is as sad as it is awesome.Friday, November 09, 2012 @ 10:46 PM
Hey Lee: Spell check is awesome. There's no such thing as a "kinight" and nobody gets "layed" off.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 01:33 AM
ugh, I wish U could edit these. Ok, I finally got it figured out now. Too Human. Silicon Knights licensed Unreal Engine 3 to make this game. They modified the engine to make it do what they wanted to do. Epic didn't care, Silicon had the license they could do with UE3 what they pleased making Too Human. That was OK. SK was upset because everyone insists UE3 sucks and its hard to make PS3 games with. This is why Too Human was so late and overbudget. Silicon Knights then took this modified Unreal Engine 3 and claimed it as their own proprietary game engine calling it the Silicon Knights Engine. They subsequently used it to make X-men Destiny and all these other games nobody heard of until today. Epic basically won the case against Silicon Knights because of Silicon Knights Engine. SK attempted to scrub all Epic copyrights and Unreal Engine 3 referenes from their engine. Epic Games was still able to find 1442 cases of identical code between the two according to the court documents. Epic basically caught SK stealing UE3 red handed. As far as X-men profits being forfeited, it has everything to do with Epic Games proving that Silicon Knights Engine was UE3, and that Silicon Knights was obviously trying to turn a profit using software that didn't belong to them and didn't have permission to use. And its odd SK is being tasked with destroying all their assets that utilize UE3. As I said, that's how the US justice system deals with counterfiet goods. Harsh and wasteful in this case IMHO. Except for Too Human. Fuck that game. Moral of the story: don't steal from the people you're trying to sue, kids.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 03:11 AM
Didn't give too human much love but friends who did say it was decent, as for XMen destiny I enjoyed it and kept it for some reason, glad I did nowSaturday, November 10, 2012 @ 05:16 AM
I think people are being harsh with SK. If you had an agreement to use something someone owns, and they give you a broken version of it for top dollar, is that really fair? I guess it all comes down to how they arranged for the deal to take place. It is unfair for me to judge however, I am always saddened to see yet another game company become nothing more than a memory. I have a feeling though Epic will soon suffer from the same fate.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 06:55 AM
@80, they didnt give them a broken version it didnt hold up in court and EPIC didnt even care about them changing some of the coding in it to suit their purposes (devs do it all the time)- all that had already been through court and SK lost because their claims wernt valid. this is all because SK changed the name, they didnt give EPIC the credit they deserved and the profit they deserved from using a modified version of their engineSaturday, November 10, 2012 @ 07:35 AM
That sucks; I loved what I played of Too Human. It was like this loot fest in the most different RPG setting. Might try and cop it from Amazon...Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 08:10 AM
get a hold of several copies of both games, keep a hold of them for a few years, and all of a sudden you have a legit black market for these things, they'll become legendary as amazing and dark games, I can guarantee it... Just look at manhunt 2Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 09:15 AM
What I want to know is what were the details of Epics countersuit that such extreme orders should be made. I find it hard to see what Silicon Knights could have responsible for that they should be penalised in such fashion. Personally I loved Too Human, and would love for them to tell the rest of the story. Got the 1000Gs ages ago, still have my disc, will be playing it more, and won't be selling it.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 09:25 AM
@8 Are you dense? Why would you have to give back your copy? They just have to get the retail market etc emptied because of the legal issues...Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 01:03 PM
@84 I disagree, while it's sad to see this happening, it is warranted. Silicon Knights altered Epics UE3 engine code, and tried to cover it up, Epic was able to prove this in court. Read #78's comment, there's a good summary of it.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 02:02 PM
I can see why the mass didn't like Too Human, for me though I thought it was a lot of fun! Shame to see a small developer run out like this. Still need to get the teamwork takedown cheevo though, someone help me out please?Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 05:56 PM
I never got used to Too Human's controls, even by the end of the game. It led to many, many deaths. I also wasn't a big fan of the retelling of Norse mythology through a sci-fi lens, but I would say, overall, I enjoyed Too Human. But then, I wouldn't have bought it--I got it for free from the Club Bing games program, which was discontinued.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 08:18 PM
Well, I just found a brand new Too Human for $6 from Gamestop. Apparently they dropped the price because of this news since it was higher for a used copy just a few days ago when I wandered by. I like the setting and concept, so I'll give it a try. As much crap as I hear about it, I also hear a bunch of people who say they liked it, so I wanted to snag myself a copy before they vanish. I've liked other weird games that everyone hates, like Ephemeral Fantasia on PS2, so maybe this will be an odd gem in my collection. And if not, it wasn't a big waste of money.Saturday, November 10, 2012 @ 09:57 PM
I would like to know how this is a blow to the video game world if Silicone Knights made crap games, also why is Epic assholes sounds like a lot of you have butthurt over buying crap just sayingSaturday, November 10, 2012 @ 10:19 PM
@76, The Adventure or Zork, a txt based 80's computer game has horrid quality at least the first version is buggy, they did improve it, however it disproves your conjecture that people pay for quality only, rarity counts as well for example ET 2600, widely regarded as the worst game at least for the Atari 2600Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 12:54 AM
To Fried Cola (#45, #46, #55, #72, #75 and #78)... SERIOUSLY!? I dont say this lightly at all because I usually dont talk shit on nor do I usually give a shit about people I dont know on the internet but... you are an idiot. I could go on forever but I wont because its a waste of fucking time. So moving on to things actually related to this article: All "fanboyism" aside this entire scenario is just unfortunate for both sides. I have nothing against Epic. I do not particularly care for the Gears of War franchise but the Unreal Engine 3 does make for some amazing games. I absolutely love Silicon Knights and Im glad alot of people on here have mentioned Eternal Darkness cause that is still one of my personal all time favorites and in my opinion one of the most creative survival horrors to date. I actually followed, preordered, and bought Too Human the day it came out solely based on the fact that it was developed by Silicon Knights. I still have my original copy and despite what anyone says it was a great game. Everything about it was very creative and original from the characters and story to the visual style and gameplay. It is truly a shame there will never be a sequel and the planned trilogy will never see the light of day. I also purchased X-Men Destiny more so based off the fact that I am a huge Marvel and X-Men fan and it was the first X-Men game since Legends than it was a Silicon Knights title but I still enjoyed it in its own right as well. I dont think there is such thing as a "terrible" game. Every game is great in its own right. I just think people are to biased and opinionated and sometimes even spoiled to enjoy things that they consider to be "below there standards." I think all this shit talking and "fanboyism" gets everyone... players and developers alike... nowhere really fucking fast. This is a sad day for gameing in general and I think this comment section proves that pretty well.Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 01:26 AM
@#94 *whew* I was expecting a lot worse than being called an idiot. Thank you so much for letting me off so easy. I'm sorry your favorite dev company was caught failing to completely delete all the "copyright Epic Games" coding out of that super awesome game engine they made all by themselves? Maybe one day I'll give Too Human another look and learn to appreciate Thor being depicted as a yellow eyed Vagos gang member having drunken himself into liver failure and smacking enemies with a giant cartoony balpeen hammer. Too Human is so true to its source mythology where Baldr fought a mechanized version of a monster from that Old English story Beowulf. I like how they went for that vintage feel with the N64 looking graphics and stiff animation. Robotron controls for melee combat was GENIUS! Also with the unrelentingly difficult and unbalanced difficulty you would normally find in crappy old Nintendo games. And that radical unskippable death sequence you sit through every death since there was always that one discolored enemy that would freeze/poison you when you killed it because it was so goddamn hard to target it and shoot it in that crowd of enemies it was in- man that made my dick hard. I ripped and stained several pairs of pants seeing that valkyrie. It was like I was dying on purpose. Everytime. It was me actually jumping into those clouds of missles that one enemy type kept spamming at me. And if I was real lucky, I wouldn't have to dashboard and reload the game so Too Human's amateur net code couldn't tell I was connected to XBL. Man, this game would've been so much better if Epic games didn't screw Silicon Knights over with Unreal Engine 3. Man, Clefairy B is such a fucking jerk.Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 05:49 AM
I literally just bought X-Men Destiny because of this story. For some reason, the thought of this never being available for sale again made me want to get a copy of it for myself. Kinda stupid, yes, but at least it's super cheap now. Now to see if I can find a copy of Too Human..Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 06:44 AM
Went to buy Too Human before its too late but it looks like Amazon and Play have stopped selling it already.Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 10:06 AM
I think I did this company a favor. I destroyed those god awful games myself.Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 11:47 AM
I like people pretending that they understand law.Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 01:55 PM
Considering the value of collectibles are based on their rarity, I suggest going out and buying a copy of each at GameStop for cheap as soon as possible.!Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 04:32 PM
Well I am happy I have a copy of both games lol.Sunday, November 11, 2012 @ 04:43 PM
@101 Gamestop has stopped selling them. http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/too-human/43440?utm_source=linkshare&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=deeplink&cid=afl_10000087&affID=77777&sourceID=FKSJxY2VJAk-EdyBq.gagEQmv86bRQwyLQSunday, November 11, 2012 @ 05:58 PM
Wow, only CoD articles usually make it over 100 comments. Impressive!Monday, November 12, 2012 @ 12:15 AM
#104 yes but there Nintendo articles in last few months when Nintendo bought Bayonetta for own and get Bayonetta 2 for Wii U next year so that article talked about it as almost everyone shocked over news on it and it is over 200. Well higher then most CoD articles I ever read and see comments lolMonday, November 12, 2012 @ 01:08 AM
@104 yeah well you're looking at video game history as well as history in copyright case law. No one has ever been forced, as a matter of equitable relief, to recall and DESTROY videogames. If you own a copy of either games, you're basically in possession of contraband. The games are virtually "stolen" to begin with. That's really unique in this industry. Can you name a single known game that has ever been found in violation of copyright law? I can't, that's why it's big news.Monday, November 12, 2012 @ 03:37 AM
Unwrapped my copy of X-Men: Destiny last friday night. Besides the fact that the graphics are crappy, the gameplay is boring and the fact you can modify your mutant it's a mediocre 'I have seen this more than once' kind of game. If they really have to 'destroy all copies', I will keep mine and sell it on eBay. Besides the mentioned flaws, it's really easy gamerscore overall. :DMonday, November 12, 2012 @ 01:14 PM
@106 You're going a little overboard with your understanding. The games aren't contraband. They themselves are not "stolen" anything. Revenge of Shinobi on the Sega Genesis was violating several copyright laws. Tengen's Tetris on NES also violated copyright laws and that game was also recalled for destruction. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the order to the destroy Xmen:D and Too Human has everything to do with counterfieting. Silicon Knights Engine is bootleg Unreal Engine 3 software. Proving theft was only in the interests of proving Silicon Knights guilty of being in breach of contract using UE3 without permission. I'm also pretty certain it was the court's decision not Epic's to recall and destroy these games. That's what courts normally do with bootleg products like fake designer clothes and sneakers bearing fake brand names. People are still being kind of dumb about this decision and not reading the court documents. The only games being DESTROYED are Too Human and X-men. And ONLY because they contain what was deemed a counterfiet Unreal Engine 3 engine. Those other unreleased games aren't being destroyed- SK is being forced to remove the counterfeit UE3 engine from them. This is what the ruling was. The ONLY source code that is being destroyed is Silicon Knights Silicon Knights Engine. The article gets that wrong. I don't know why the internet insists on being stupid and dramatic about this claiming its akin to book burning. If you took a book, deleted the author's name, replaced it with yours, and sold it you wouldn't just be punished like Silicon Knights was, but your fake shit would be destroyed as well. also yay! I'm adding more $.02 in an archived article! No one will read this!Wednesday, November 14, 2012 @ 02:29 AM
It's funny how there's mixed feelings about "Too Human" & "X-Men: Destiny." Some say get it while you can, others say take my copy... PLEASE! Now if the courts ordered all copies of "Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Burning Earth be recalled and destroyed... you KNOW that people who have yet to bang-out the easy 1000gs from that would be SCRAMBLING to find a copy - even if only to spin-it in their 360 for only 5 minutes!!! LOLThursday, March 07, 2013 @ 04:37 PM
and yet this game is still in my local store being sold lol after a all this time
Friday, November 09, 2012
Silicon Knights has been ordered to destroy all copies of Too Human and X-Men: Destiny.
The court ruling comes following a legal battle between Silicon Knights and Epic over the Unreal Engine.
Silicon Knights had accused Epic of withholding an improved version of Unreal Engine 3, while also using licensing fees to fund development of Gears of War instead of improving the tech.
This was a problem for Silicon Knights because at the time the studio was developing Too Human using a licensed version of Unreal Engine 3.
Silicon Kinights struggled to work with the engine, eventually abandoning it in favour of their own proprietary system.
The swap greatly delayed development of Too Human and cost Silicon Knights a bundle of cash, spurring them on to launch a legal suit again the engine’s creators.
However, Epic launched counter claims which were held up in court. In the end Silicon Knights were ordered to pay Epic $4.45 million in damages.
All of which leads us to this latest revelation. According to court documents, Silicon Knights has been ordered to cease production, recall and destroy every single copy of every game they’ve ever developed using the Unreal Engine.
Those games include Too Human, The Box/Ritualyst, The Sandman, X-Men: Destiny and Siren in the Maelstrom.
All of this must be done at the studio’s own cost.
It’s just more bad news for a developer that’s already virtually extinct. Following the poor performance of X-Men: Destiny most of the company’s staff were layed off.
Reportedly only five remain, one of whom is studio boss Denis Dyack.
[via NeoGaf]