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Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider Multiplayer Interview - "We Know Exactly What You Guys Went Through"
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Tomb Raider is being re-invented; with a new-look Lara, a new origin story and a new, gruesome aesthetic. But that’s not the only thing that’s new about the British heroine's latest outing. Multiplayer is also being introduced to the series for the very first time, courtesy of Deus Ex developer, Eidos Montreal.

In this interview with producer Joe Khoury, we got the chance to ask why the 17 year-old franchise is adopting multiplayer, how it ties in with the game's single-player campaign and how it feels to spend two years of your life working on something that many fans don't really want.

Before we get into that, however, we highly recommend that you read our hands-on preview with the game’s Rescue mode. It’ll help put some of the more specific information discussed later on into more perspective.

First question, and rather an obvious one, why multiplayer?

Obviously. First question I get at every interview *laughs*.

For us to answer that, I could say why not? Right? But the idea, for us anyway, was to investigate if it COULD work, because it’s a franchise that stands extremely well on its own with Lara’s story in the single-player. 

But at first, Crystal Dynamics - focusing specifically on single-player - had an idea about how players would play co-operatively in multiplayer together, because they did Guardian of Light before. 

So as soon as the re-imagining of the new Tomb Raider came to be, there was an interest in doing multiplayer, but with everything that had to happen on Lara’s side and the single-player storytelling side, they didn’t want to split their resources.

That’s where investing in another studio came to be, because there were some pillars in the game - both high level and lower level - that could make for an interesting multiplayer experience. That’s where we came in.

We had talks with Crystal, evaluated what was being done in this re-imagining, and making sure that if we were to do it we were to do it right. Because we’re fans of the franchise too and we didn’t believe in just doing something for the sake of doing something.

So the major themes of survival, the theme of Lara being stranded on an island, with shipmates on the island that she has to re-group with and these scavengers that are on the island preventing you from leaving. .. and the island itself being a threat - we felt that we had some interesting tools to work with.

And then going down a level lower, looking at the mechanics that are in there - like the axe climb, the bow, the weapon variety that we have, the traversal, zip-lining up and down - made for another layer that would be interesting for variations in every match.

So all of these elements came to be and then we said well, it could be something that’s fun, especially if you take into consideration the environmental effects and all that stuff. It could be a stepping stone for people that have played the single-player before and enjoyed the single-player campaign and then maybe wanna play a little bit more and have some experiences with their friends.

And that’s how it took off.

The community response to the multiplayer announcement was interesting. A lot of people were surprised. It means that you’re starting from a position where some people are skeptical about it, before they’ve even seen it. How are you going to win them over?

We’re going to win them over because we went through that same thought process. Being in Montreal, we have tons of opportunities to work on great projects as well. If we didn’t feel that strongly about this and knowing what we know today and making the choices that we’ve made, we’ve answered the questions that provide players the answers when they play it.

Originally, we really had to think hard on how to do this right. And think about how to make it feel different and how to give it enough spice for it to feel like it belongs in the same world. 

Multiplayer is the kinda stuff that you can only really judge when you sit and play it. As much as I can tell you that this is the goal of this mode, this is how you do it on this map, it’s really about just playing it. And hopefully, when people start playing it there’ll be enough people talking about it in the right way that they’ll invite their friends and have some experiences that will encourage more people to join in.

What’s it like from a personal point of view? It must be hard to work really hard on something for two years and discover that some people are against even the idea of it.

Yeah, we were expecting it. Because again we knew that it was a franchise that people have very fond memories of. I still have memories of Tomb Raider 2 in 1996, so it is different, it is new, it is stepping into a new generation of gamers as well. 

But as you can tell by the way I am reacting, I’m not surprised and I am looking forward to seeing their actual reactions when they play it. And there’ll be people that will love it and there’ll be people that will maybe move onto something else, but generally speaking we set out to do something that was fitting for the franchise that would allow players to enjoy playing as some of the characters they’ve gotten to know in single-player. And if that’s what they want then hopefully we can deliver that.

Do you think that a game like Tomb Raider, with a campaign that isn't vast like an RPG, can perform well on its own without multiplayer?

Yes, absolutely. I think that this Tomb Raider specifically can perform, hopefully will perform, perfectly on its own. And that’s what people want. People want to know how Lara becomes what she becomes. And there’s so much depth and heart put into that. I think that story in itself and the path the player takes will make the single-player stand on its own, hopefully, very well.

And then, when we come into play, it’s not necessarily... it's an extra layer of gameplay, a very different layer of gameplay, that the players will talk about in a different way than they talk about the single-player. 

Single-players are going to talk about what they went through with Lara, they’re gonna see her become the hero that she. In the multiplayer they’ll talk about the moment-to-moment experience they’ve had, a very tight match that they’ve had, imagine like a sports event, how tight you are, how on the egde of the seat you are - your favourite team is down two goals and all of a sudden then come back and tie it up. 

That’s the kind of talk that we want. And as players evolve, as they level up, the matches get a little trickier, you start to get used to the maps, you start to see the different options you have every time you play, and again more stories come up.

You mentioned something earlier about how the multiplayer was designed to stay true to the re-imagined single-player. Could you expand upon that for me please?

Yeah, we felt that the mechanics that worked very well in the single-player could be elaborated on in the multiplayer.

So axe-climbing, instead of there being two directions that you can axe-climb in, we’ve got four directions that you can axe-climb in, or maybe different paths on different maps that offer you different levels of verticality, different options to take on every map, and at the same time the weapon choices that we bought in from single-player as well. 

Basically all these pillars that we thought made single-player so interesting and different and fresh, we were able to start with that bed for multiplayer as well.

So the pick axe again, you can use it to hide in multiplayer. You can use a pick axe on a pillar to hide yourself while your enemy sits there and looks for you. So using mechanics that have worked in single-player to offer variety in multiplayer.

We played Rescue today [here’s our hands-on write up - Ed]. What can you tell us about the other modes that you’ve got lined up?

Right now, nothing. No. The focus that we have right now is on Rescue, on Team Deathmatch...

You have announced other modes though.

We’ve announced them, but we haven’t expanded on them. So you know there’ll be some that are easy to jump into and some that are a little more objective-based, but trust me we’re excited to see how people will react to those as well.

But right now it’s our first step and we wanna take a look and embrace our reaction to that first step.

Going back to Rescue then. We played two matches during our demo earlier. I felt like it’s more immediate to play the Scavengers, because you just have to shoot people...

That’s not just what you’ve gotta do.

You have to shoot 20 people, that’s the objective.

But you’ve got to finish them off, or you don’t get the points.

Ah, yeah you’ve got to finish them off, that's right.

So that’s a big risk and reward. If you want all 20 points you’ve got to go up in person, while the downed player still has his weapon and can shoot you back. It’s the secondary weapon, the handgun, but it’s still pretty lethal when he has a straight aim on you. So it’s a very tight situation where you might be able to finish him off...

Yeah, I got killed by a downed player a few times. I’m interested in that process of balancing though. Is it just a case of sitting down and playing it, and tweaking as you go?

No. I wish it was that simple. We have eight map systems, which other people have as well, where we look at where people are struggling or having a hard time getting through a particular area. The ideal map is something that looks like there’s a good spread of difficult points and easy points and once there’s a choke point in some area, you can maybe feel that frustration settles in. And the little adjustments that you have, allow for completely different results.

So yeah for sure, there’s a big part of it which is changing, testing, changing, testing... sometimes you get so caught up in that day-to-day stuff that you need to take a second opinion. That’s where play-testing comes in.

One of the other interesting things is the various traps that are littered around the place. I got squished a few times.

Yeah, the spike traps.

Right. Yeah and I got hung upside down by a noose. Are the traps going to be the same across all the different maps or will you have different ones?

Yup, we’ve got different ones for different maps. We take the general environmental theme of each map to design some of these traps. There are some that come back, so the snare trap might be available, the spike trap might be available on certain maps, maybe not on others. We don’t force them into areas where we feel they don’t belong.

On the other hand we do set different traps that might have different results on different maps.

Are you allowed to tell me about any of them?

Not yet. But I like the curiosity. I wanna feel like there’s an interest there, for sure!

The other slightly different thing is the ability to call in sandstorms. Again, is that on every map and across every game mode, how does that work?

There’s a game-changer on every map. And don’t ask me what it is because I want to keep that a surprise too.

Triggering the game changers is also a surprise in that it encourages exploration, so even in a situation where it looks like it could be obvious, what the effect might be, actually triggering it is something where trial and error might be a good idea.

What about post-release support, what have you got lined up? I’m not talking about DLC, I’m talking about event-based support to keep the players coming back?

That’s a good question. We probably will. I can’t really define what yet but odds are we’ll definitely have things like that.

OK, so last question. And please understand that the line of questioning I’ve pursued is because the community reaction has been so strong. If you could send the naysayers one message, tell them one thing to win them over, what would it be?

Very simply put: We know exactly what you guys went through in the way that you initially reacted and what you thought about the idea at first. And know that, after we’d gone through the thought process, we did break it down a lot deeper than just saying it has multiplayer. 

A lot of thought has gone into the modes and maps and everything, even if at first it just seems like a simple multiplayer mode we highly recommend that you give it a shot, give it a try. In between single-player sessions, get some friends together and see. See how tight the games are, how they feel about it and once you’ve done that we’d love to hear how you feel about it as well.

Joe, thanks for your time.

Tomb Raider is out on March 5th, 2013.




 
 

User Comments

Forum Posts: 73
Comment #1 by JuanPabloSmoker
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 11:56:46 AM
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Was this interview face to face? He sounded like he may be wanting to punch you when you mentioned the scavengers.

A good, brave interview but hasn't allayed my fears for this mode in the slightest


Forum Posts: 158
Comment #2 by D0ctorNick
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 11:56:48 AM
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Still a bit skeptical, mainly because I don't prefer mp outside of Halo/Gears, but I think as soon as it drops to $40 I will pick this up. If the mp turns lots of people off hopefully that day is sooner rather than later!


Forum Posts: 123
Comment #3 by Si Alpha
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:03:13 PM
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Add it, experiment with it, see if anyone gives a crap, that's all fine - but don't add ridiculous MP achievements like hitting max level or getting the kind of luck that only lottery winners have any knowledge of. Never underestimate the number of gamers who won't buy a game because of stupid MP achievements, myself included. I'm not a die-hard Tomb Raider fan but I was thinking of picking this up at some point because the single player looked pretty inventive. I'm also a completionist, so seeing these ball-aching achievements attached to a game I'm not overly fussed about is enough to lose you a sale. And I'm sure as shit not the only one.


Forum Posts: 46
Comment #4 by LeeBradley [STAFF]
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:08:29 PM
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@1

It's weird. The interview was face-to-face and it was perfectly good natured at the time. It's only when you read it in black and white that it seems a little confrontational.


Forum Posts: 917
Comment #5 by I mak3 big boom
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:21:00 PM
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I wish you had said something about the achievement list being terrible.


Forum Posts: 11698
Comment #6 by BiggD
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:39:22 PM
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Still not enough to convince me to overlook the awful achievement list and mere 10-hour Campaign.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #7 by crossbit
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:42:43 PM
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I can't say I care for the multiplayer yet either - I've not seen or read anything that actually makes it seem worthwhile. Most previews and hands-on articles present it as decidely average, and the gunplay and character movement in the gameplay video they've released recently just looks floaty and weightless.

It's just... no. The singleplayer element looks top-notch, and provided it doesn't release as a bug-riddled mess like some other recent 3rd-person action titles *coughAC3cough* should make for a good play, but the multiplayer still just seems like a lazy effort hidden behind the usual claims of supposedly "innovative" mechanics and gamemodes.


Forum Posts: 46
Comment #8 by LeeBradley [STAFF]
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:45:24 PM
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@5

We hadn't seen it at that point dude, or I woulda.


Forum Posts: 1414
Comment #9 by Vindicator51
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:46:33 PM
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@3 They should've looked at X360A's tips on achievements first. ;)


Forum Posts: 17
Comment #10 by Mr Chr15topher
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:50:00 PM
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While I hate MP achievements, I will still give it a go. Hopefully it will turn out to be playable at worst. I doubt it will be anything groundbreaking, but until I play it I can't really form an opinion. Looking forward to the SP though.


Forum Posts: 51
Comment #11 by leeroy1975
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:50:36 PM
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A first time MP like this one should only have cheevo's like e.g. play every map 10 times , play every mode 10 times. Then if the MP is good enough that people continue to play it, then maybe the next game down the line you put in cheevo's like the ones they have.


Forum Posts: 147
Comment #12 by hotdogenigma
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 12:53:52 PM
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You know it's funny he said a lot of the same things most devs say about their MP, whether it's new for a franchise or has existed before with obvious changes. Most of the times these MP's fail...I have the same expectation for this one too. But I suppose time will tell, and surely time will tell when 80% of the community drops off after a couple of months to move on to a game in which MP actually belongs.


Forum Posts: 37
Comment #13 by lukemadtv
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 01:06:18 PM
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I know this is unheard of, but I think I'll try the game out first before I start complaining about it. I must be insane!


Forum Posts: 518
Comment #14 by DOPE BOI
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 01:10:13 PM
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Nice interview but a huge flaw is not asking about the decision for all the multiplayer achievements. That's not asking players to try it out, that either locks some in or forces them to avoid the game.

You guys go into heavy, heavy detail about your work on Grid 2s achievement list and the do's and don'ts. Tomb Raider breaks a few of them but you don't call them out on it. This is a achievement site, your views hold weight and you have the chance to directly show them what their doing wrong and you say nothing.


Forum Posts: 518
Comment #15 by DOPE BOI
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 01:16:36 PM
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Edit: @8 I see now that y'all didn't see the list at the time. Should probably post that at the top because we all will ask why not mention the achievements.


Forum Posts: 499
Comment #16 by AirborneRichard
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 01:49:02 PM
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It all sounded alot like Naughty Dogs desission to do MP on the Uncharted series, and if this is anything like it its not so bad, but i think they had done a better job putting some co-op MP in there like Uncharted 2 and 3 did and one is still capable of earning XP in those. But i wait this could be great fun or end in a huge dissapointment and it dies down quikly in terms of ppl playing it. My greatest fear for the MP is that alot of gamers will boost this and the MP achievements first few days and weeks and then its basicly is dead after.


Forum Posts: 657
Comment #17 by BBowles
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 01:50:44 PM
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I realize this is an achievement site, so most people here are ridiculously swayed by the achievement list of a game. I consider myself a completionist and try to complete all of my games as time allows, but I've never refused to buy a game based on its achievement list. Or the addition/lack of MP.

I have no doubt that the SP campaign will be worth the price of the game, so if it turns out that I get even 10 minutes of enjoyment out of the MP then that's just a bonus.


Forum Posts: 755
Comment #18 by Hurricane Of 87
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 02:04:54 PM
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#13: SECTION THIS MENTALIST

#12: Yeah, the usual 'I'd love to tell you but I can't tell you.','give it a try, a lot of work/love went into it.' and 'it's pretty interesting, you should try it out' style responses that don't really say anything we didn't know already.

I can understand the MP achievements and why they're put in the game, it's just the quality of the MP seems poor from what video footage is available out there. It's a shame questions like "Your game looks gash, how will you save this?" are off the table though.


Forum Posts: 1671
Comment #19 by RDrules
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 02:28:15 PM
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i wont be buying it because of them MP... not the achievements but because it has it in general and honestly with the hands on here and this interview im just feeling more and more like that



Forum Posts: 303
Comment #20 by ronnie42
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 02:32:34 PM
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"We’re going to win them over because we went through that same thought process." Clearly by the amountof hate towards the idea they didn't........


Forum Posts: 124
Comment #21 by TheWeasel
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 02:54:00 PM
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i personally think they not have put so many mp achievements in the games 1st run of mp, especially not a get to level 60 achievement. who the hell are they going to find out if the people playing it are playing it for the achievements or the fact they like it. i'm pretty sure that most of the people that play it will boost the mp achievements and never play the mp again once they have all the achievements.


Forum Posts: 546
Comment #22 by o D M C o
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 03:04:40 PM
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I cancelled my pre order for this game based on the achievement list, cant be arsed with yet another get to lvl x in a shit multiplayer game achievement. If it turns out the game is good then Ill buy it at a later date.

That said, there is still time for the devs to ammend the achievements if they want. The comments section on the news of the games multiplayer was about 90% against the introduction of MP to Tomb Raider, why dont they listen to the fans, and get rid of the achievements that force ppl to play online if they want the game complete. Keep the mp by all means, just get rid of the achievements for it.


Forum Posts: 1615
Comment #23 by Nitnoid
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 03:55:22 PM
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I'm still not feeling the love for multiplayer...


Forum Posts: 2200
Comment #24 by cheevo360
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 04:12:06 PM
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Well I still look forward TR for their beauty graphics in single-player, I know I will enjoy this game through Campaign, maybe play MP with friends, to get almost achievements if I can.

Well TR is still disappointed Franchise because of MP, awful Cheevos list and we all know some cheaters or craziers who willing ruins MP modes.

Nevermind. TR is not my one of important games to look forward to this year now. But I do look forward for actually Story Campaign. :)


Forum Posts: 46
Comment #25 by LeeBradley [STAFF]
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 04:15:13 PM
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Just a note, for balance.

I've now played a bunch of single-player and a bit of multiplayer and Tomb Raider is definitely interesting enough to warrant a purchase.

As should be pretty clear by now, what I've seen of the multiplayer doesn't look very exciting (and hey maybe I'm wrong), but I wouldn't stop that from allowing me to enjoy the single-player.

Uncharted 2 introduced unnecessary and pretty crappy multiplayer, but it's still one of my favourite games this gen. Dead Space 2 too, and that was great. And AC: Brotherhood (though the MP there has some great ideas).

Simply put, if the achievement list puts you off then that's cool. And if you're annoyed that publishers are bolting on multiplayer that nobody wants, that's cool too.

But I wouldn't rob myself of something potentially great because of the presence of something potentially shit.

Peace.


Forum Posts: 233
Comment #26 by Cinderkin
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 04:46:19 PM
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@ 25

This is why I plan to RENT the game. I really want to play the SP for this game, but $60 for 10 hours isn't enough for me. The MP is also a huge turnoff.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #27 by Buckdawg
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 04:47:00 PM
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I really don't see the problem with multiplayer, it's actually made me much more excited for the game. People just love being little whiny bitches for the sake of being little whiny bitches I think.

OMG DA MULTIPLAYER 'CHIEVEMENTS R GNA RUIN DIS GAME 4 ME!!!!>!>!2z

Jesus, get a grip already. If an achievement is stopping you enjoying what looks to be one of the more impressive games to close out this generation, then you really need to look yourself in the mirror and question just why you are a gamer in the first place.


Forum Posts: 12
Comment #28 by The Nightdream
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 05:11:48 PM
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Not really the same thought process. Our reaction to grind to level 60 is hell no!


Forum Posts: 1615
Comment #29 by Nitnoid
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 05:39:10 PM
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Bioshock2 had a tacked-on multiplayer with serious grind for levels. I still have nightmares getting 1000 on that one!


Forum Posts: 1
Comment #30 by GRIM REAPER 25
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 06:07:48 PM
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@27
agreed im looking forward 2 this game even with the crappy achievement list


Forum Posts: 120
Comment #31 by Lbrun12415
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 06:19:30 PM
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still getting the game and the dev failed cuz i don't like MP and I WONT play it,


Forum Posts: 101
Comment #32 by bigmaples
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 06:28:58 PM
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the mulitplayer is trying to hard to be uncharted.


Forum Posts: 1671
Comment #33 by RDrules
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 06:33:11 PM
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tbf Ive been put off tomb raider by the very fact angel of darkness existed, i havent liked a single one after that so yeah while i get where your coming from lee a dev just starting down a road i dont like is enough to instantly put me off


Forum Posts: 131
Comment #34 by SmarmySmurf
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 06:44:51 PM
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Sorry, I'm not supporting this decision no matter what inadequate justifications are tossed out. And to all of you saying you'll just buy it and only play SP, guess what, you're supporting MP with your money and that's the only message they'll take away from that. Congrats, you're giving them a green light to keep going in the wrong direction, so thanks for aiding the destruction of one of my formerly favorite franchises.


Forum Posts: 158
Comment #35 by TheBajan
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 08:43:45 PM
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@34 No you idiot, how many players actually play the mp, how long the multiplayer stays alive and the response from those who play it keeps it going in future games. If the mp does badly, and the community abandons it quickly then they will know that their "experiment" failed.


Forum Posts: 518
Comment #36 by DOPE BOI
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 09:01:10 PM
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@ 25 I'm not a completionist so I will play regardless.

I love Uncharteds MP. The only thing I hate is that its on PSN.


Forum Posts: 4134
Comment #37 by Cpt Slaughter
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 09:43:00 PM
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If you don't want to do the mp achievements, then don't do them! No person has the right to force you to do those achievements.


Forum Posts: 373
Comment #38 by Sgt Scyther
Friday, January 25, 2013 @ 10:25:00 PM
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"Why not?" Because not every freaking game under the sun NEEDS a multiplayer mode, that's why not.


Forum Posts: 1615
Comment #39 by Nitnoid
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 05:22:12 AM
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Bottom line is this: You like mp? Fine! Play it! You don't like mp? Fine! Don't play it. The crux of the matter is that mp DOES NOT BELONG IN A TOMB RAIDER GAME. Harumph!


Forum Posts: 201
Comment #40 by Ceromorth
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 05:49:29 AM
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Seems developers want to add MP to everything to 'prolong the life of the game'. It's so much easier and cheaper to do that after all, rather than actually making the SP story longer or more in depth. We need the developers to form an orderly line so we can slap the silly out of them.


Forum Posts: 1671
Comment #41 by RDrules
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 07:59:54 AM
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@40 yeah hats always their excuse... not like people still play tomb raisder now or anything :P (the original i mean)


Forum Posts: 92
Comment #42 by Hawkins21
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:09:18 PM
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the only reason this game has multiplayer is because they know the single player is short, and multiplayer is the only chance they have to keep sales of new copies up. if it didnt have multi people would finish it in a matter of days, and supply and demand would make the price of both used and new plummet.

personally, if the multi cheevos turn out to be way to grindy, i will simply rent the game and play it on my secondary account, that's what i did for arkham city. its not worth missing out on a great gaming experience.


Forum Posts: 302
Comment #43 by Sonnenberg
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:15:58 PM
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@25

Sorry man but this is a single player game that if I played I would want to get 100%

I refuse to play multiplayer on this game for days on end just to get the max lvl achievement. Therefore I could never get 100%. They just lost my business, and I'm sure many more will agree with me.

This is an achievement website, so whenever I read people that post things like "who cares about achievements?" or "achievements don't make the game" I get really confused.. If you don't care about achievements then what are you doing here? The achievements for this game are garbage. I will not be paying money for this.


Forum Posts: 172
Comment #44 by Hottub Cowboy
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:25:34 PM
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Cancelled my preorder & I will not be buying this due to the MP. TR is a SP game and should have been left that way.


Forum Posts: 157
Comment #45 by Gone4aDuck
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:46:19 PM
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I'm sure i will get lots of thumbs down because nobody agrees with me. (Heaven forbid I should have my own opinion) But it really makes me wonder if so many people would be moaning about the MP achievements if they were all really easy to get in say an hours worth of play? I can't help but think not!


Forum Posts: 289
Comment #46 by davhuit
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 02:15:21 PM
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@43 : Because some people like to complete some games they really liked but not really play just for the achievements (I'm on this website and I have a lots of game uncompleted and that I don't plan to complete).

But I understand those who only play for that and so your point is valid :)



Forum Posts: 289
Comment #47 by davhuit
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 02:16:38 PM
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Forgot to put one thing.

For people who likes achievements, they could made a mp without achievements. Dead Space 2 have a multiplayer mode and all the achievements are single player ones.


Forum Posts: 452
Comment #48 by ll X ll
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 03:22:00 PM
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What if this game didn't even have achievements? Would people still get it? :P


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Comment #49 by ll X ll
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 03:27:50 PM
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I know i would.


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Comment #50 by Xenolith666
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 03:35:11 PM
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See if it could work? Then why tie ridiculous achievements to a first time MP system? Leave MP to the CoD's, Halo's and Gears games.


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Comment #51 by RDrules
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 07:25:54 PM
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@42 i have another solution that doesnt involve adding MP to it...

you ready?... make the single player longer :O

shocking right


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Comment #52 by Chaos5282
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:47:03 PM
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Just have achievements like Mass Effect 3, let gamers get them in either sp or mp.

Gamers choice works for me since I don't always play mp.

The last thing i'll say is that some game ABSOLUTELY DO NOT NEED MULTI-PLAYER mode.


Forum Posts: 2504
Comment #53 by Rivercurse
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:50:32 PM
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"Crystal Dynamics - focusing specifically on single-player - had an idea about how players would play co-operatively in multiplayer together, because they did Guardian of Light before.

So as soon as the re-imagining of the new Tomb Raider came to be, there was an interest in doing multiplayer, but with everything that had to happen on Lara’s side and the single-player storytelling side, they didn’t want to split their resources."

Is it just me, or does this not even make sense. That's not a reason why you had to add MP to this SP franchise in the slightest.


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Comment #54 by IconicGherkin
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 02:49:05 AM
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@45 well no we wouldn't moan as much!

I think you're missing the point, we don't want Tomb Raider to have multiplayer so having MP achievemants is a pain but if you could get them in a hour it would be far less painful than grinding to lvl 60!

I will still buy this game and may or may not grind the lvl 60 chievo(depends on how MP turns out)


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Comment #55 by Alienfan11
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 03:55:49 AM
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Really guys, really? You are going to not buy this game because of some stupid meaningless achievements? It sounds like with out achievements half of you would not be gamer's.


Forum Posts: 0
Comment #56 by Ilikeyou
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 04:47:04 AM
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@36 "I'm not a completionist" has over 260k points ;)


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Comment #57 by Reggiez
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 09:01:00 AM
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Tacked on MP in yet another SP game series. Always the same talk about ground breaking work on the MP and how they respect the fans. Garbage talk all of it. If they want an MP then don't force time consuming achievements into it. Do as Dead Space 2 did or Mass Effect 3. That way people can try it out and earn achievements in the mode if they feel like it.

On the fence about getting this game. MP looks very generic and the full campaign has to make up for that by being awesome. Still I did like BioShock 2 even though it had pretty much the same problems. The MP in that game was a huge pain though.



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Comment #58 by Cla55y
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 02:02:14 PM
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This isn't a completionist website. So all you telling people to gtfo because they said don't play the multiplayer get your facts straight. You can still pick up the game, ENJOY IT (I know, I must be crazy, the look at the achievements and decide what you do or do not want to go for. So even if you aren't completing it you can still get achievements and therefore have a place on this site. So I'll reiterate what they all said: Don't want to play MP? Don't play it! It really is that simple.

xbox360achievements.org
NOT
xbox360completions.org


Forum Posts: 123
Comment #59 by Si Alpha
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 05:12:20 PM
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@58 It's not a reviews website either, so y'know, feel free to have a little tantrum about those as well. I'm still trying to decipher your second sentence, you talk about getting facts straight but you barely seem to have read half of the posts on here. You're disregarding just about every single good point that has been made. And I love the part about having "a place on this site", like completionists don't belong here but you do. Believe it or not, having 400,000 gamerscore based primarily off of shitty kids tie-ins and every phone game under the sun doesn't give you the right to judge people's attitudes towards achievements. I mean who are you to dictate the way people go about their achievement hunting?


Forum Posts: 131
Comment #60 by SmarmySmurf
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 05:42:40 PM
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Guy who hasn't completed a single TR is downplaying the importance others place on completing new TR. I'm shocked. Same guy actually played Eragon from two regions, completed both. Sorry Bond OO7, but that's hilarious.


Forum Posts: 152
Comment #61 by Russman
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 07:45:49 PM
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Most of my friends on my list barely even login anymore thanks to us having full times jobs and lives. I don't like playing with random people and I'm not interested in making anymore. So this game is a rent for me.


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Comment #62 by The Cipriani
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 10:34:16 PM
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They always talk about "re-imagining" games, but multiplayer is the WORST way to do it, repetitive repetitive repetitive ...
they cant even think of new multiplayer modes :/ TDM, CTF, Rescue (which is basically CTF with the essence of TDM). I can think of some ideas off the top of my head now ... maybe use some quirky ideas from older games:
what about "T-rex trauma" ... There is a T-rex in the middle of the map spinning around with his mouth open, the first to throw 10 monkeys into his mouth wins!
See its easy, and tell me that wouldn't be more fun than "kill, kill, death, spawn kill, spawn death, spawn death, spawn death, rinse and repeat until level 50 ... oh wait then prestige 10 times.


Forum Posts: 51
Comment #63 by leeroy1975
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 01:59:14 AM
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How about a MP games where you just spank the monkey instead, because the internet is full of wankers by some of the commentors on this thread.


Forum Posts: 770
Comment #64 by Cla55y
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 05:38:10 AM
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@59. I know some people care about completions like their lives depend on it. I have a friend I speak to daily who has said fuck this game because of the achievements. But for some people to start saying people don't have a place here because they don't care about completing it and will still play the game regardless of how crappy the achievements are is just stupid. I wasn't trying to judge how other people go for there achievements, I was trying to stand up for the people who are being judged for just wanting to play a game! What also baffles me is why people see an article about tomb raider MP and feel the need to come in and spread hate about it and talk down on anyone who looks for the positive in it and wants to give it a chance.

For the record though, I'd rather not have MP achievements in the game but I'm here bitching about it because, like you say, who am I to judge what people want to play? If people want to play multiplayer for achievements then that's fine. If people want to miss out on a potentially great game because of the achievements then that's their choice too. I reread my post and it didn't really come across how I intended it, I'm sorry.

As for my GS being primarily kids games... I'm pretty sure my biggest % of gs genre was is shooter. I play phone games when I'm bored and grinding something. Most my phone games were played during the 500+ hours of inversion boosting. For me the priorities of gaming are quality first, Gamerscore second. I won't pass on a game if I looking forward to it regardless of achievements. I also won't play a shitty tie in over a good game either, I use those to fill my time between good games.

@60 I don't really see your point. My point wasn't solely based on TR. This is just the game that seems to be getting more shit than all the others. There are plenty of games that have been in this same boat. As for never completing a TR game myself, I completed the Legend part of Legend. I just need to go back and do the anniversary part. I also played underworld a while ago and loved that too. I have all 3 and the JP version of Underworld to play.

But anyway, I wasn't judging people on how they play, I am judging people who are judging other people on how they play... if that makes sense. Sorry if it didn't come across that way and maybe it does make me a hypocrite, judging people for judging but its something that really bugs me when people are telling people to leave this site because they are not playing with achievements at the very top of their priorities...

And as 59 said this website is more than just achievements now. It has reviews and articles, news etc. So I don't think the whole "this is an achievement website" statement holds much weight anymore unless someone is talking crap to someone who likes them.

Also you are right, I didn't read all the posts here. My rant is more based on this whole thing. Across multiple articles and websites have a seen people getting shot down who are remotely looking forward to this MP. This was were I finally decided to throw in my 2 cents.

Again, I apologise if my original comment didn't come across like that. At the end of the day, video games are entertainment and as long as you are enjoying what you are doing and can do so with 0 regrets then there is no problem, so long as you don't talk down on people who enjoy things differently. If your not enjoying what your doing then I feel very sorry for you.


Forum Posts: 123
Comment #65 by Si Alpha
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 07:38:29 AM
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@64 Fair enough :) I can happily say I'm a completionist with no regrets who enjoys what he does and I've got nothing against anyone who plays games for the game and not the achievements, I just don't like it when people hate on those who put achievements before games. In this case, I'm putting the achievements before the game because I'm not overly fussed about TR, but for games I really enjoy like Halo or Mass Effect or Dead Space I'll always buy the game and max it out regardless of crap achievements. I could understand the argument levelled against people who decide not to buy a game they really want because of achievements, I think in those cases it is really worth gritting your teeth and bearing it. But for games like this where I'd only really pick it up to see what its like, long arse MP achievements attached to a pointless tacked-on multiplayer mode are a deal breaker.

And just to reiterate, I've got nothing against people who don't care about completing games, so long as they don't have anything against me.


Forum Posts: 770
Comment #66 by Cla55y
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 08:04:46 AM
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Exactly. Let people play and do what they want to play and do. I know a couple of people who like all kinds of multiplayer and love it when they have a achievements to go for in it. So when I see people bitching about a game not being SP only it makes me think of these people who actually like it and how selfish some people are about it. I'm with you on games I'm on the fence about achievements can sway me one way or the other very easily. TR I think looks amazing (single player) same with dead space and a lot of other stuff coming out this year. But take gears judgment and I could very easily leave that game alone if I see another seriously like the last and that's because this gears doesn't look any different from the last 3 imo. However if the achievements come out and it's a decent list that won't take too long and require a crap load of MP play then I will probably play it, whether it's day 1 or not is a different matter.

I feel very sorry for people who get super exited for a game when it's first announced, love everything they see and hear about it, then ignore if they see am achievement they don't like in it. While yes it's entirely their decision to make I can't help but think these people take gaming as a occupation more than a hobby...


Forum Posts: 27
Comment #67 by DreamerUSA
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 01:32:42 PM
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The MP caused me to cancel my pre-order as well, but for different reasons then what I've seen posted. Which actually suprises me nobody has mentioned.
I'm not going to get it because they will likely release 4 dlcs that will all involve MP and not SP.(Yes I'm looking at you Max Payne). I'm not past playing a game and not completeing it, but I refuse to play a game that by the time the dlc is done being released that half the achievements will likely be MP based in a game I had no desire to play MP in to begin with.


Forum Posts: 44
Comment #68 by Eagle41
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 06:45:16 PM
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Multiplayer in a Tomb Raider game?! WTF?! Really, you just couldn't leave well enough alone, could you? OK, I like the re-invented Lara character but, this MP crap is likely to keep me from playing this game. ESPECIALLY with a Level 60 achievement. What do you think this is, Gears of War? FAIL!


Forum Posts: 2789
Comment #69 by Destro
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 @ 05:58:01 PM
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This game interest me since the annoucement, im really eager to see how it will play, because i like Lara in general, but im not that fan of the traditional Tomb Raider "climb/fall" mechanics with a couple ennemies here and there... I do hope there is gonna be more put on the fighting and on the surviving aspect than just search for the right wall to climb.

MP tough, arg... worst time to be released sadly, with GOW Judgment releasing at the same time, i doubt ill play anything else... so well... Sadly its gonna be empty in 1 month or so and i won't really be able to try it out...


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Comment #70 by superstarpro25
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 07:53:10 AM
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game looks great lots of action, but really did they have to add multiplayer to this... oh well. still can't wait to play It :]


Forum Posts: 52
Comment #71 by izzy702
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 05:42:39 AM
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sometimes I feel bad for developers who waste their resources on a mp that nobody will play or just gets abandoned fast. I remember Transformers wfc actually held up for a bit. It went strong with a little over 1k, way better when compared to games like dark sector


Forum Posts: 287
Comment #72 by BIG L RETURNS
Tuesday, February 05, 2013 @ 07:09:57 PM
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"You have to shoot 20 people, that’s the objective."

"But you’ve got to finish them off, or you don’t get the points."

Screw you Crystal. This isn't anything new. Your new "Rescue" mode is the equivalent of "Kill Confirmed" on Call of Duty. GTFO. This isn't anything ground breaking. Drop your shitty multiplayer ideas that you've been shoving down our throats, and give us a lengthy worthwhile campaign like Bioshock Infinite is doing. Would you like me to predict whose going to do better in sales??


Forum Posts: 81
Comment #73 by danielhauck007
Monday, February 11, 2013 @ 02:52:05 AM
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I'm a little disappointed here. So many games that are successful single player games have to go and muck things up with some poorly thought, poorly executed multiplayer that just doesn't end up working. It happened in Assassin's Creed series, Rage, and Bioshock 2 among others. The only one that I enjoyed was and thought was fairly well done was in Mass Effect 3, but even that got boring rather quickly compared to most good multiplayer games. I'll still be in line to buy the new Tomb Raider but I think I stick to the story mode and skip the multiplayer altogether. Those mp achievements will be really annoying here too.


Forum Posts: 36
Comment #74 by knight0fs
Monday, February 11, 2013 @ 08:16:04 PM
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Their multi-player sounds like gears of war, the whole kill then finish off thing.


Forum Posts: 36
Comment #75 by knight0fs
Monday, February 11, 2013 @ 08:59:58 PM
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If it was just co-op story I would understand, but a player vs. player seems awkward after seeing the combat. It would be like gears, doing cartwheels with a shotgun puts me off :/


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Game Info
Developer:
Crystal Dynamics
Publisher:
Square Enix
Genre:

Release:

US March 05, 2013

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