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Anyone else think Banjo Tooie sucks compared to Banjo Kazooie?


Thinreaper
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I honestly feel that Tooie is the better of the two. Banjo-Kazooie was a favorite of mine back in the day. I bought Tooie when it first came out, but I never played it (my dad took it and was playing it constantly). Now that I am finally experiencing it, I feel its a little more original. The only problem is that it is exactly like all Rare sequels.

 

Rare has a tendency to produce a sequel that is superior in everyway, but still the same game. This is like Nintendo and PokeMon syndrome. So while I do like Tooie better, Kazooie is a better game. If you are on the fence about which to buy, I'd say go with Tooie. There are so many subtle improvements that the game is simply better, but if you already have Kazooie, skip it.

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I feel the series is a downward spiral, Kazooie being the best and N&B being the worst. I like the pure challenge of finding all the notes in Kazooie and that if you die you have to get them all again. I feel this gives gamers more of an incentive to play better, as most current games have no real consequence for death. For example, Halo 3 and CoD get new checkpoints every 2 minutes and if you die, you just revert to the last one, whereas Kazooie makes you restart everything, without making the game ridiculously hard. Tooie was also a great game, just not as great as Kazooie, as it seems like they tried to change the series into something different. I hated the idea of 5 note packs, but I adjusted to it. I thought the level connections (e.g Mayahem Temple to Glitter Gulch Mine/ Terrydactyland / Hailfire Peaks) were an amazing idea, as it opened up having to remember to come back to levels to get jiggies that were, at that time, unreachable. (GGM's waterfall jiggy required Spring Shoes). When N&B came out, I was excited at the concept of vehicular platforming, but when I played it, I found that I much preferred the classic style. Sure, the graphics were good and everything, but it felt more of a kiddies game (and don't say it's because I'm older now, because I still enjoy Banjo Kazooie/Tooie.)

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I feel the series is a downward spiral, Kazooie being the best and N&B being the worst. I like the pure challenge of finding all the notes in Kazooie and that if you die you have to get them all again. I feel this gives gamers more of an incentive to play better, as most current games have no real consequence for death. For example, Halo 3 and CoD get new checkpoints every 2 minutes and if you die, you just revert to the last one, whereas Kazooie makes you restart everything, without making the game ridiculously hard.

Unless they changed something via a title update since I last played, they took that part out of Kazooie when they put it on the Arcade. You could die, leave levels, even turn of the game and the notes you collected would stay collected.

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Making worlds really big and complex does not = challenge or fun. It's just poor game design imo which is why i didnt like what Rare did with Donkey Kong 64 either. Banjo Kazooie was simple yet hugely enjoyable and that is what makes a good 3d platformer imo.

!

 

That's why I don't like this game! I never liked DK64 either, and now that you mentioned that game, I remembered that exactly the same thing I've found annoying in Tooie, I found annoying in DK64 as well.

 

It's 70 jiggies.

:eek: ffffffffffffffffff... Dammit. I though just 55 Jiggies (to do the last puzzle) and I'd be home free to beat Grunty's ass again. But 15 more beyond that? Meeeeeeh. :(

 

Although, I will give this game credit for one thing that it does have over Kazooie (and DK64). I just murdered a giant talking ice cube. That was epic win if I ever saw it. :D

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i prefer kazooie over tooie for reasons that others stated earlier. the worlds became too complex and just generally irritating because you always have to go back and forth from place to place. the thing that bugs me the most is that when you get to a new world, especially witchyworld and after, you can't even access half the level because it requires moves you need to learn 1 or 2 worlds later. you spend all this time trying to figure out what to do and then you learn a new move and it becomes obvious.

 

with that said, tooie did improve on a few things. the warp pads and silos were a huge improvement over the cauldrons from the first game. i also liked being able to play as mumbo and introducing wumba to take over the old mumbo role of transformations.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Kazooie was better, but only because I don't get this strange confused feeling that I get while playing Tooie. While playing Tooie, everything feels overwhelming, a feeling like constant over multiple tasking is present. I really don't know why either. Maybe because you can't get every Jiggy the first time you visit a level, maybe because of the transformation system, maybe because of all of the little hidden stuff that you see while doing something important, then having to stop what you are doing to get the item... there is always something overlapping with something else. It's because of this that as a whole I see Kazooie as a better game. The pacing is, in my opinion, a lot better in Kazooie.

Edited by Blue Radium
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I'm going to revive this thread because I still feel that this needs more discussion.

 

If I reviewed both Kazooie and Tooie, Kazooie would be the better game. Tooie is basically just too complicated, some of the new idea's in the game where good while others weren't. And the least said about Nuts and Bolts the better.

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Here's my lengthy view on all of this.

 

I'll start by saying I prefer Banjo-tooie. In Banjo Kazooie you were a bear and bird duo fighting through a witches lair in order to save Banjo's abducted sister. As far as plots go Banjo Kazooie honestly didn't have a whole lot of it. I also had a feeling of being sort of trapped in Banjo Kazooie. If you stop and think about it, you were in a tower the entire time you were playing the game. Sure the levels were varried, but they were also pretty small and still stuck within the confines of Gruntilda's lair. I also feel that the interactions with NPC's were fairly limited, you find a mole hill and bottles just gives you a move, you find cheato and there's a free cheat. Maybe it's just me, but none of the NPC's other than Gruntilda and Mumbo Jumbo felt very active or "Alive" to me. Don't get me wrong I absolutely adored Banjo Kazooie and bought it the instant it hit the marketplace, it's just in comparison Banjo Tooie has a lot more to offer in the end.

 

Banjo Tooie starts off with the more established and well known characters in Banjo Kazooie, then it adds some new ones very quickly while letting you keep all your old moves. In my opinion Banjo Tooie gives you some backstory very fast and even opens up lands beyond Spiral Mountain and Gruntilda's Lair. It was a large and fairly vibrant land with many path's and area's. I didn't feel so stuck and confined in that world. With the addition of Banjo and Kazzoie splitting, you had the possibility of Banjo using his wonder napsack without Kazooie occupying it. Then you had Kazzoie moving without the bear weighing her down, and able to fulfill some birdly duties. Then you had the ability to play as mumbo, and while those times are fairly short, they were tons of fun. Banjo Tooie just felt more interactive and expansive, and honestly I like the backtracking. It's far too convenient to learn one or two moves, then suddenly everything in that level can be aquired. With backtracking it makes the world feel more beleivable to me, since there are obstacles you can only get past as you progress farther. Lastly, all the upgrades you get required collection, not just locating people. Mumbo Jumbo and Humba Wumba both needed a glowbo, The Honey Bee needed honeycomb sections, and Jamjars needed notes. Nothing is really handed to you in Banjo Tooie, you need to do some thinking and collecting in order to win.

 

I also want to throw in that I liked Nuts and Bolts. It was the same universe years later, then they got taken to a new land with new rules. The thing that made me like it is that it never really broke character for the universe as a whole, it was simply different. Although I would like a return to form from the Rare team.

 

In the end the whole series is connected extremely well, it has a fun and quirky feeling to it, and all in all (the first two games especially) it's an extremely fun series full of puzzles and platforming.

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  • 2 months later...

Tooie's a case of just because it's bigger and more in-depth doesn't make it a more enjoyable game. The game feels very overwhelming and complex and has too many distractions from the things that actually matter. It also feels a bit like genre-whoring and the backtracking gets tedious.

 

At least that's what I remember from the N64 version, maybe things will change on another playthrough.

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I preffered Kazooie. I had never played Tooie on the N64 and playing it for the first time on the XBLA was a dissapointment, it was extremely difficult. I had no idea what to do or what I was doing, the levels kept going back and forth and everything was so complicating, impossible to complete wthout a guide. I half-completed the first level and then used a walkthrough for the rest of the game.

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  • 3 weeks later...

They ditched Grunty's rhyming in Tooie, that alone was enough for me to say Kazooie was the better game! (That and having to constantly backtrack though all the worlds, glad the achievements on Tooie weren't so focused on completionism as Kazooie was, there were some Jiggies I honestly took one look at how to get and thought "No thanks, Ill pass")

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Tooie is far superior to Kazooie, though I like Kazooie more. The reason may be it's darker tone. It's nowhere near as bright and cheery as Kazooie. I remember liking Tooie more when I was a kid but now I choose Kazooie, both better than most retail releases!

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