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GSL 16 Recap and Suggestion/Feedback Thread


Edword
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I try not to respond to ad hominem arguments, but it's worth pointing out that that sort of thing has been done to Christmas over and over again. Somehow it has endured all sorts of minor changes and modernizing updates. I for one am not terribly interested in having my guts wound round a tree by druids.

 

But I guess I'm not much of a thinker since I disagree with you.

Or I was simply talking about modern Christmas, the way people remember it.

 

And yeah, I remember you. You signed up to a GSL and scored 0 gamerscore points during the whole contest. The first one ever to do it? Maybe if things are changed, you will have time to unlock that one achievement that will break the curse of not participating at all.

 

It's kind of funny as hell that you actually comment in a thread which is to suggest changes to said contest. :D

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Or I was simply talking about modern Christmas, the way people remember it.

 

And yeah, I remember you. You signed up to a GSL and scored 0 gamerscore points during the whole contest. The first one ever to do it? Maybe if things are changed, you will have time to unlock that one achievement that will break the curse of not participating at all.

 

It's kind of funny as hell that you actually comment in a thread which is to suggest changes to said contest. :D

 

See again what I said about ad hominem arguments (they don't make you look good).

 

It's worth pointing out that I haven't made any suggestions, I've only juxtaposed the paragraphs of a single post you wrote to show their illogic. Being rude to me in reply doesn't make you less illogical.

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It's kind of funny as hell that you actually comment in a thread which is to suggest changes to said contest. :D

 

His scoring or lack thereof shouldn't deter him from having an opinion. He's a member of the community, like you and I, and should have an equal voice in this conversation. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but it's quite arrogant of you to suggest that he shouldn't post in this thread at all.

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Or I was simply talking about modern Christmas, the way people remember it.

 

And yeah, I remember you. You signed up to a GSL and scored 0 gamerscore points during the whole contest. The first one ever to do it? Maybe if things are changed, you will have time to unlock that one achievement that will break the curse of not participating at all.

 

It's kind of funny as hell that you actually comment in a thread which is to suggest changes to said contest. :D

 

You literally could not have proven Frag's point more.

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Care to elaborate?

 

The idea of being put in classes based on past competitions or something of that nature. I feel like every competition should start everyone off on the same footing. If an underdog team goes out of their mind and scores the most points, they shouldn't be capped at how high they can climb. (i.e. the 6-10 bracket would limit them to 6th place).

 

I dislike the waiting a week before seeding suggestion in addition to that because some teams score more early and some teams score more later. I dont think you can seed mid-competition. For example a team shouldn't be able to score 50k the first week, be put into the highest class, and then stop scoring and still get top 5 or something.

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Just my two cents on preloading, some random thoughts. It doesn't seem that relevant in GSL with the amount of easy completions being released each year.

 

I had 35k GS of preloads and Red had less than that I believe, so we would have still taken the top two spots on solo side. Similarly on team side we had approx 70k GS of preloads so I feel we would have still taken the win. (Though this is a lot less clear cut to say as both us and Horsemen were taking it very easy week 4.)

 

Preloading feels balanced in GSL as a way to gain an advantage if you put extreme effort into it throughout the year (I must have put in over 1000 hours preloading this year and it made up just 28% of my GSL score).

 

Actually looking over my GTASC stats. https://gyazo.com/c761da04bfaeac4e665e58132eac2ee0

I scored 26k GS in 24 hours using preloads. Then noting that 9th / 10th Dec was one 26 hour session to finish GTASC, I scored 23k GS in 26 hours with no preloads. So yeah kinda interesting, until you have burned through every single quick completion preloads are irrelevant.

 

Ban preloads and also ban all sub 3 hour completions, then it could be a pretty interesting contest?! Reduces the monetary barrier to competing as well which I'm sure everyone would be thankful for. :)

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Ban preloads and also ban all sub 3 hour completions, then it could be a pretty interesting contest?! Reduces the monetary barrier to competing as well which I'm sure everyone would be thankful for. :)

I think there is nothing wrong with winning the contest with preloads. Our team would have been easily beatable every year with preparation and strategy. Except maybe 2013, when we all used japanese visual novels and the preload-scene was still dead. All you need is few semi-dedicated teammates, then you start saving points together from like July onwards. Everyone gets like 10-15k extra they can smash in 2 days, it's almost over after that already.

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I think preloads are acceptable. I think its fair play in this competition. Although you might not do it, you cant say you dont have the opportunity to.

Taking that out, I feel, makes it a different competition. It would no longer be about pure gamerscore increase.

 

It has already been addressed but I do think GSL needs to be moved out of taking place at the same time as the end of GTASC. I feel like if you want to win this competition you should have to fully commit to it, rather than winning it as a bonus whilie trying to win the other competition.

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It has already been addressed but I do think GSL needs to be moved out of taking place at the same time as the end of GTASC. I feel like if you want to win this competition you should have to fully commit to it, rather than winning it as a bonus whilie trying to win the other competition.

 

That would be like straight up admitting TA has the stronger power scorers compared to XBA lol. Surely the more competition the better?

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That would be like straight up admitting TA has the stronger power scorers compared to XBA lol. Surely the more competition the better?

 

Oh I agree I like the competition. But I dont feel the preloaders should be able to double dip in competitions from the same preloads.

 

If you want to win GTASC, great! Do it! If you want to win GSL, great! Do it! You should have to earn each one however, not get a 2 for 1 deal.

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That would be like straight up admitting TA has the stronger power scorers compared to XBA lol. Surely the more competition the better?

 

I don't think anyone would even doubt that, so not much of an admission. The Finns only come back for the tournaments, Red only goes ham because of the end of gtasc, you 4 brought a power ta team over etc. I'm not a big player like you guys, but I've podiumed every year and I only return now for tournaments and such.

 

If they want gsl to stand on its own two feet, it's gotta be moved. I think dirty already said they were looking at that. It would alter the landscape, and this is an opinionated projection, but I think most of the hardcore guys would prioritise gtasc, leaving gsl a much closer contest.

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There definitely are distinct groups like you pointed out. However i was concerned that with these rules it could be easy for teams to manipulate what class they are put in. So like someone that should be in Class A purposely does shit for the first week then to just go all out once classes have been designated. They might not even do it on purpose either, depending on personal situations someone at not be able to score for the first week or something, throwing out the balance.

 

Perhaps make score thresholds for classes? For example; Class A being above 100k, Class B from 50-100k and so on. Have it so if a team does really well they could go up a tier maybe.

Yupp, definitely a concern I've considered and while I don't have a perfect solution for it, I think having non-competing admin pick when teams are seeded may allow for a smooth process. It's not something we've tried and can go back to past data for information, but it's something we'd like to implement into GSL.

 

We're still very open to suggestions on how this could possibly work like your score threshold idea. If I or another staff member don't reply directly to a member's suggestion, please don't take that as your post being ignored. Many notes are being taken from this and the Trash Talk thread.

 

The idea of being put in classes based on past competitions or something of that nature. I feel like every competition should start everyone off on the same footing. If an underdog team goes out of their mind and scores the most points, they shouldn't be capped at how high they can climb. (i.e. the 6-10 bracket would limit them to 6th place).

You wouldn't be seeded on "past competitions or something of that nature". If you're in B class (6-10 bracket) and placed 6th overall, you'd be 1st in your division. You wouldn't actually be competing with the division above you either.

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(I must have put in over 1000 hours preloadingthis year and it made up just 28% of my GSL score).

This right here is my issue with preloads. That was 1000 hours of play time outside of the actual tourney.

 

As long as its allowed by the rules it is personal choice and of course anyone who wanted to put in the time could do it. I myself just think it goes against the spirit of the competition. We are supposed to be seeing who can earn the most Gamerscore in a set amount of time, yet some people obviously have invested more time than was allotted and only through clever trickery and technicalities does it actually count.

 

It's cool that you still would have won without the preloads, that just shows you don't need to do it for victory. So why even bother?

 

The only way preloads would be fair and acceptable in my eyes is if A.) Everyone did it; which will never happen. Or B.) No one did it.

 

Having said all that; In the end I only compete for fun, and am not overly concerned how other people play as long as it doesn't directly effect my fun.

 

TL;DR: I don't agree with preloading, but as long as it is allowed by the rules it is a valid strategy.

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You need to remember that GSL has a definition what it is and how it will play, it's been pretty much the same since 2006 or 2007, or when it was born. You shouldn't change something that has been around way before most of you even registered here. If you want other type of contest, you need to have it named differently.

 

That line of thinking makes little sense.

 

If you see something with problems or that can be improved or you just simply want to attract more attention (users)... you don't just throw your head in the sand and say "Well it's always been this way, why change it."

 

Since the dawn of time, we've been adapting things, tweaking things, improving things.

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That line of thinking makes little sense.

 

If you see something with problems or that can be improved or you just simply want to attract more attention (users)... you don't just throw your head in the sand and say "Well it's always been this way, why change it."

 

Since the dawn of time, we've been adapting things, tweaking things, improving things.

Well, you didn't present any new ideas for GSL in this post. People just don't really think about my point. I'm trying to say, make a new contest. You don't have to use the words GSL for it. GSL is about scoring gamerscore points during a certain time frame. If you use the words GSL for a carrot eating contest (for example), then you set up the carrot eating contest and the winners are awarded with placing first in GSL (carrot eating) then the past winners will be remembered as carrot eaters, even if they never have eaten any carrots in their life.

 

It's kinda like those movie series like Fast and Furious. If you're going to call the thing almost exactly the same as the last part, things will only get confusing. There's nothing good about that. I've watched maybe 70% of those movies, and I have no idea which ones I'm missing.

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Well, you didn't present any new ideas for GSL in this post. People just don't really think about my point. I'm trying to say, make a new contest. You don't have to use the words GSL for it. GSL is about scoring gamerscore points during a certain time frame. If you use the words GSL for a carrot eating contest (for example), then you set up the carrot eating contest and the winners are awarded with placing first in GSL (carrot eating) then the past winners will be remembered as carrot eaters, even if they never have eaten any carrots in their life.

 

It's kinda like those movie series like Fast and Furious. If you're going to call the thing almost exactly the same as the last part, things will only get confusing. There's nothing good about that. I've watched maybe 70% of those movies, and I have no idea which ones I'm missing.

 

When you mischaracterize someone else's argument in order to make it easier to criticize, this is a form of what's called a Straw Man argument. Along with your earlier ad hominem attacks on me, it completes the power play of people who don't know how to debate and aren't willing to listen or compromise.

 

Look Kovy, I know that GSL is a big deal to you. Judging by your post count and tenure on this site, I'd bet it's literally the only thing here that you care about. But this site is bigger than you or me, and even bigger than its flagship competition. If changing the competition, particularly in some unimportant cosmetic ways, can breathe any kind of new life into the site, then the folks in charge must feel obligated to look into it. I candidly don't care much about GSL, definitely not as much as you, so it's appropriate that my opinion not hold as much weight. But conversations work better when the people in them are willing to communicate constructively. I'm not mad at you, I just get a little exasperated when people refuse to change anything but complain about the current state of affairs.

 

And, you know, it's possible to change things a bit and keep the spirit of the event intact. You keep extrapolating minor suggestions into huge, trasformative catastrophes (a carrot-eating GSL isn't exactly what's being discussed).

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Again, more comments which are not about suggesting how to change the competition, only criticizing the way I express my comments here.

 

If you do decide to make a change that pretty much removes the ability to create your own team and the power to decide on which people will compete in it, this will most likely result in me and many others not participating at all in a competition like that. So there's your "new breath of life for the site".

 

But I'm not in the mood to discuss this right now, have a Merry Christmas if you celebrate it.

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Again, more comments which are not about suggesting how to change the competition, only criticizing the way I express my comments here.

 

If you do decide to make a change that pretty much removes the ability to create your own team and the power to decide on which people will compete in it, this will most likely result in me and many others not participating at all in a competition like that. So there's your "new breath of life for the site".

 

But I'm not in the mood to discuss this right now, have a Merry Christmas if you celebrate it.

 

Good call. Merry Christmas to you, too.

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If you do decide to make a change that pretty much removes the ability to create your own team and the power to decide on which people will compete in it, this will most likely result in me and many others not participating at all in a competition like that. So there's your "new breath of life for the site".

GSL will always have a 'create your team' feature, Kovy :)

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As long as any changes cause the competition to gain more participants than it might lose, I’m happy. Especially if those changes make the event more enjoyable for everyone that does join. That would only encourage people to keep joining.

 

In the past we were more hesitant to change things because it seemed that a significant portion of participants didn’t want changes. The lowered participation the year of the twist helped support that belief. We’ve come back up by a few teams since that year but have stagnated.

 

Judging by much of the feedback we’ve received publicly and privately over the last two years, I think people are ready for a change as long as it isn’t too much of a fundamental shift.

 

As of right now I think everyone should expect GSL to be at least a couple months earlier. Maybe a small change or two beyond that.

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My two penneth Other than changing the time of year GSL takes place, I don't think there should be any other changes at all. A simple team based competition to see who can bag the most gamer score over a period of time is fine. Whoever can play the most shite wins:D

 

I do, however, think there is the opportunity to have more events throughout the year incorporating different ideas to appeal to more gamers.

 

Best game of the tournament for me was Whatever Happened to Edith Finch? The worst? Pretty much everything else I played.

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